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650 posts
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posted: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: How can i read the Bible♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wrote: jan rey wrote: ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wrote: PusangGala wrote: jan rey wrote: pusanggala: whose teaching has greater weight? Jesus, the Apostles, or Paul? janrey: well, i believe all the books in the bible are inspired by the HOLY SPIRIT (GOD). JESUS who is GOD, is therefore the Author of the scriptures. let me say it this way, JESUS spoke with authority, the other writers of the bibles whether they be prophets, apostles, etc... are inspired by the Author Himself. pusanggala: That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. janrey: this verse does not refer to the dietary guidelines given in scriptures. i believe the word "meats" is translated from a greek word that means "food" in general (verses 20&25 also implies anything offered to idols). "strangled" according to strong's concordance refers to animals deprived of live without the shedding of blood. regarding the deitary guidelines, one of the things you'll notice about unclean animals is that most of them are scavengers. whereas the clean animals tend to be herbivores. so GOD knew that if you were going to eat meat, the clean animals would be a better choice. but now science is just catching up with the scriptures regarding a vegetarian lifestyle. Thank you Jan Rey. Your second answer was very enlightening. The first one though was very troubling although I believe in most of Jesus' teachings. Please try to read leviticus chapter 11, in the old testament. we all know that there is also an unending debate about foods premitted and forbidden, like the seventh day adventist a group that doesnt eat "scavengers" like hogs(pork) crabs, hyenas(lol) etc, but other christian sects does, apparently, In the new testament god changed his mind and allowed scavengers to be eaten. i dont really care about what you eat,"(it's not what goes into a man's mouth,but what comes out that defiles him)" GOD never changed HIS mind... why would HE when HE cares about our health. science is catching up to what the bible and ellen white had advised we eat. in fact being vegan/vegetarian seems to be the trend nowadays. you may not care what you put in your mouth, but HE does. because mind, body,&spirit are interconnected. the bible teaches wholism! as for the verse you quoted, it referred not to food if u read in context. in fact it stemmed up from the whole ceremonial hand washing issue. Like I said, that is an unending debate; Matthew 15:11 "It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man." i think the message was pretty clear and simple. right?? (read the commentaries) read verse 7&8 - it addresses hypocrisy and verse 8 says why they are hypocrites. they "draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is far from me." now that's what reading in context means. you insist that GOD doesn't care what u do with your bodies, that HE doesn't care about your health and the other aspects of your life. now what genuine christian would agree with that? im sure the pork eaters would agree with that if u did not mention the dietary issue. once u mention the issue, they will of course have a more biased answer. refuse the biblical interpretation, but u cannot ignore the scientific facts! you basically saying it's okay to smoke, GOD doesn't care what u do with your bodies, it's all about the spiritual - WRONG! as i mentioned before the bible views human beings "wholistically" (mind, body, & spirit). |
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650 posts
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posted: RE: How can i read the Biblepusanggala: Note the reference to a UFO-like vessel and the voice telling Peter to kill the different types of animals and eat them. (Acts10:10-15)janrey: you didn't read all the way through the story. v. 17 shows peter contemplating about the vision since he didn't know what it meant. v. 28 shows peter understanding what the vision meant, that he should "not call any man common or unclean." pusanggala: For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. janrey: read 1 corinthians 8 to see what paul is referring to. paul states to "eat to GOD's glory" (1 cor. 10:31) and that "we are not to defile our bodies (1 cor. 3:16). so paul is not promoting "eat whatever you want" but that we don't earn GOD's favor by eating certain foods! another issue was with gentile christians being offended by jewish christians eating foods offered to idols. gentile christians were sensitive to idol worship since they were converted from such religions. pusanggala: KJV Matthew 15:11 (KJV Mark 7:15) janrey: i already replied to leisley. like acts 10, matthew 15 must be read in context. verses 7&8 reveal what the issue was about, hypocrisy! read mark 7:19-23 also since they are the same story. pusanggala: KJV Luke 12:29-31 janrey: that text does not refer to diet. but our needs that the heavenly Father knows already. it says seek ye first the kingdom of GOD (the spiritual) and the physical will be provided. it says nothing about GOD allowing us to eat whatever we want, thus defiling our bodies which paul speaks against. the difference between JESUS' and paul's statements is that JESUS was addressing the spiritual (hypocrisy), whereas paul referred to our physical selves, that we who are sanctified (set apart for holy use) our instruments for GOD. |
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650 posts
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posted: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: How can i read the BiblePusangGala wrote: jan rey wrote: PusangGala wrote: jan rey wrote: well u have to be careful about using "finite/human" analogies in trying to comprehend an "infinite" concept. the plurality of GOD is one of GOD's mysteries that is beyond human comprehension, at least in this lifetime! I thought humans were made in the image of God. I could have made a wrong interpretation somewhere. KJV GENESIS 1: 26-27 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. image doesn't necessarily refer to appearance... although many animals are smart and very intelligent, they wouldn't be considered "intelligent beings". something differs us from the animal kingdom. and that difference is partly because we are made in HIS likeness. remember GOD is beyond/before space/matter/energy. we are made out of matter/energy so "image" does not refer to "physical appearance" Kindly show me the verses in the Bible that support your hypothesis. Thank you. sure... john 4:24, luke 24:39, rom. 1:20, colossians 1:15, 1 tim. 1:17 all show that GOD is spirit, HE has no physical form. HE may take the form of man, to reveal HIMSELF to man. but as one who is before space/matter/energy, HE has no physical form. GOD is the cause of all finite things. HE is infinite so to say HE has the shape and image of a man (finite being) would be flawed. but really, u didn't need biblical text for that... |
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650 posts
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posted: RE: How can i read the Biblepusanggala: Maybe because they're trying to prove that the Bible is consistent when it is not?janrey: well then your view of GOD is not biblical. as i said, u can refuse to believe the interpretation i hold, but u cannot deny science! and leisley being supposedly a supporter for science should not ignore the fact that the original diet is shown to be superior. and that adventists live in average longer than the population. and that was reported in the national geographic pusanggala: Isn't it difficult to accept that God could change HIS mind? God gets angry too. God cares and sometimes He's fed up. God is more or less human and God is corporate. God is love as much as God is also hatred. janrey: when it comes to conditional punishment HE can change HIS mind if the people repent. but diet is not conditional. nowhere does it say that "if you are good, u can eat whatever you want!" as for GOD being angry, u cannot compare it to human wrath or anger since humans are sinful and GOD is not. as for GOD being "hateful" u have to read and understand the original language. when it comes to hating someone, it refers to being "loved less." and how do i know this? because according to john 3:16 which i think u all know, "GOD so LOVED the world...that whosoever believeth in HIM shall not peris, but have everlasting life." pusanggala: The Bible simply reflects that corporate succession of humans as it builds up its knowledge base, cultural changes, and views on morality. janrey: well then that would make the bible just another human creation. but according to scriptures, the prophets spoke under inspiration. and that the WORD of GOD is inspired. of course this would be another intensive study on inspiration. although inspired, the writers themselves were to express and write down the ideas that GOD gave them in their own words, using own analogies, as well as doing research. they did not just sit around waiting to by hypnotized by the Spirit. that's not how inspiration works. anyways, the dietary guidelines apply to all human beings since we are all made up of the same things and have the same biological/physiologicall systems! pusanggala: What's important is that humans should stop from killing each other for some trivial reason like one group eats a certain kind of food while the other doesn't as in the case of the Sepoy Rebellion. janrey: that argument is irrelevant! im going to add one more thing. christianity was not supposed to be a whole new religion. it was supposed to be a continuation of a religion dating back from adam and eve. christianity became so different from judaism due to false doctrines creeping into the church and the desire to distance themselves from judaism because of anti-semitism. |
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posted: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: How can i read the Biblejan rey wrote: ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wrote: jan rey wrote: ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wrote: PusangGala wrote: jan rey wrote: pusanggala: whose teaching has greater weight? Jesus, the Apostles, or Paul? janrey: well, i believe all the books in the bible are inspired by the HOLY SPIRIT (GOD). JESUS who is GOD, is therefore the Author of the scriptures. let me say it this way, JESUS spoke with authority, the other writers of the bibles whether they be prophets, apostles, etc... are inspired by the Author Himself. pusanggala: That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. janrey: this verse does not refer to the dietary guidelines given in scriptures. i believe the word "meats" is translated from a greek word that means "food" in general (verses 20&25 also implies anything offered to idols). "strangled" according to strong's concordance refers to animals deprived of live without the shedding of blood. regarding the deitary guidelines, one of the things you'll notice about unclean animals is that most of them are scavengers. whereas the clean animals tend to be herbivores. so GOD knew that if you were going to eat meat, the clean animals would be a better choice. but now science is just catching up with the scriptures regarding a vegetarian lifestyle. Thank you Jan Rey. Your second answer was very enlightening. The first one though was very troubling although I believe in most of Jesus' teachings. Please try to read leviticus chapter 11, in the old testament. we all know that there is also an unending debate about foods premitted and forbidden, like the seventh day adventist a group that doesnt eat "scavengers" like hogs(pork) crabs, hyenas(lol) etc, but other christian sects does, apparently, In the new testament god changed his mind and allowed scavengers to be eaten. i dont really care about what you eat,"(it's not what goes into a man's mouth,but what comes out that defiles him)" GOD never changed HIS mind... why would HE when HE cares about our health. science is catching up to what the bible and ellen white had advised we eat. in fact being vegan/vegetarian seems to be the trend nowadays. you may not care what you put in your mouth, but HE does. because mind, body,&spirit are interconnected. the bible teaches wholism! as for the verse you quoted, it referred not to food if u read in context. in fact it stemmed up from the whole ceremonial hand washing issue. Like I said, that is an unending debate; Matthew 15:11 "It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man." i think the message was pretty clear and simple. right?? (read the commentaries) read verse 7&8 - it addresses hypocrisy and verse 8 says why they are hypocrites. they "draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is far from me." now that's what reading in context means. you insist that GOD doesn't care what u do with your bodies, that HE doesn't care about your health and the other aspects of your life. now what genuine christian would agree with that? im sure the pork eaters would agree with that if u did not mention the dietary issue. once u mention the issue, they will of course have a more biased answer. refuse the biblical interpretation, but u cannot ignore the scientific facts! you basically saying it's okay to smoke, GOD doesn't care what u do with your bodies, it's all about the spiritual - WRONG! as i mentioned before the bible views human beings "wholistically" (mind, body,&spirit). Like i said that is an unending debate. I wont go into that.. I'll live my life the way I want to. and i live it to the fullest.. I dont know about you... :-)lol (try pork barbecue its very delicious, also sugpo and crabs oh i forgot to mention pork sisig waahh.. its the best..hehehe of course eat these foods in moderation) i love vegemeat and glutein too... you know even soya milk is unhealthy if you drink way too much of that stuff... :-) |
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650 posts
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posted: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: How can i read the Bible♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wrote: jan rey wrote: ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wrote: jan rey wrote: ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wrote: PusangGala wrote: jan rey wrote: pusanggala: whose teaching has greater weight? Jesus, the Apostles, or Paul? janrey: well, i believe all the books in the bible are inspired by the HOLY SPIRIT (GOD). JESUS who is GOD, is therefore the Author of the scriptures. let me say it this way, JESUS spoke with authority, the other writers of the bibles whether they be prophets, apostles, etc... are inspired by the Author Himself. pusanggala: That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. janrey: this verse does not refer to the dietary guidelines given in scriptures. i believe the word "meats" is translated from a greek word that means "food" in general (verses 20&25 also implies anything offered to idols). "strangled" according to strong's concordance refers to animals deprived of live without the shedding of blood. regarding the deitary guidelines, one of the things you'll notice about unclean animals is that most of them are scavengers. whereas the clean animals tend to be herbivores. so GOD knew that if you were going to eat meat, the clean animals would be a better choice. but now science is just catching up with the scriptures regarding a vegetarian lifestyle. Thank you Jan Rey. Your second answer was very enlightening. The first one though was very troubling although I believe in most of Jesus' teachings. Please try to read leviticus chapter 11, in the old testament. we all know that there is also an unending debate about foods premitted and forbidden, like the seventh day adventist a group that doesnt eat "scavengers" like hogs(pork) crabs, hyenas(lol) etc, but other christian sects does, apparently, In the new testament god changed his mind and allowed scavengers to be eaten. i dont really care about what you eat,"(it's not what goes into a man's mouth,but what comes out that defiles him)" GOD never changed HIS mind... why would HE when HE cares about our health. science is catching up to what the bible and ellen white had advised we eat. in fact being vegan/vegetarian seems to be the trend nowadays. you may not care what you put in your mouth, but HE does. because mind, body,&spirit are interconnected. the bible teaches wholism! as for the verse you quoted, it referred not to food if u read in context. in fact it stemmed up from the whole ceremonial hand washing issue. Like I said, that is an unending debate; Matthew 15:11 "It is not what enters into the mouth that defiles the man, but what proceeds out of the mouth, this defiles the man." i think the message was pretty clear and simple. right?? (read the commentaries) read verse 7&8 - it addresses hypocrisy and verse 8 says why they are hypocrites. they "draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is far from me." now that's what reading in context means. you insist that GOD doesn't care what u do with your bodies, that HE doesn't care about your health and the other aspects of your life. now what genuine christian would agree with that? im sure the pork eaters would agree with that if u did not mention the dietary issue. once u mention the issue, they will of course have a more biased answer. refuse the biblical interpretation, but u cannot ignore the scientific facts! you basically saying it's okay to smoke, GOD doesn't care what u do with your bodies, it's all about the spiritual - WRONG! as i mentioned before the bible views human beings "wholistically" (mind, body,&spirit). Like i said that is an unending debate. I wont go into that.. I'll live my life the way I want to. and i live it to the fullest.. I dont know about you... :-)lol (try pork barbecue its very delicious, also sugpo and crabs oh i forgot to mention pork sisig waahh.. its the best..hehehe of course eat these foods in moderation) i love vegemeat and glutein too... you know even soya milk is unhealthy if you drink way too much of that stuff... :-) u say it's unending, but philosophically, biblically, and scientifically, the interpretation i&the SDAs hold are sound! notice u said "i live my life the way I WANT TO." of course since you don't claim to be a christian then it's understandable. of course i don't know why u are debating this when u aren't even a christian yourself. because in true christianity, the world does not revolved around self! as for too much soy milk being bad, too much of anything is bad! so that argument is irrelevant! but still, vegetarian lifestyle still the best lifestyle! GOD had it right... get over it. |
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posted: God is not vegetarian.jan rey wrote: u say it's unending, but philosophically, biblically, and scientifically, the interpretation i&the SDAs hold are sound! notice u said "i live my life the way I WANT TO." of course since you don't claim to be a christian then it's understandable. of course i don't know why u are debating this when u aren't even a christian yourself. because in true christianity, the world does not revolved around self! as for too much soy milk being bad, too much of anything is bad! so that argument is irrelevant! but still, vegetarian lifestyle still the best lifestyle! GOD had it right... get over it. First, I would like to thank Jan Rey for his effort and diligence in answering my statements sentence by sentence and for the Biblical verses he provided that I have yet to verify. Second, I would like to point out also that Jan Rey is fond of non sequitur fallacies like his statement above to quote: [B]ut still, vegetarian lifestyle [is] still the best lifestyle! GOD had it right... [G]et over it. Third, I think that statement is non-Biblical and out-of-Biblical context for the following reasons: 1. No verse whatsoever in the Bible says that: "Thou shall not eat meat" or "Thou shall eat only vegetables." 2. Several verses whether literal or figurative disprove a 'vegetarian' God that Jan Rey promotes. I hereby quote some of those verses in groups to minimize non-contextual interpretations. Please note also that there were grain offerings, meat offerings, and drink offerings yet there were no specific 'vegetable offerings' in Leviticus 23:9-20. OLD TESTAMENT 9: And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2: And the LORD spake unto me, saying, 21: And Solomon reigned over all kingdoms from the river unto the land of the Philistines, and unto the border of Egypt: they brought presents, and served Solomon all the days of his life.
NEW TESTAMENT KJV MATTHEW 3:1-6 33: For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil. 1: Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 1: For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins: |
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posted: If humans were not created in the image of God, then is the Bible wrong and Jan Rey right?jan rey wrote: PusangGala wrote: jan rey wrote: PusangGala wrote: jan rey wrote: well u have to be careful about using "finite/human" analogies in trying to comprehend an "infinite" concept. the plurality of GOD is one of GOD's mysteries that is beyond human comprehension, at least in this lifetime! I thought humans were made in the image of God. I could have made a wrong interpretation somewhere. KJV GENESIS 1: 26-27 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. image doesn't necessarily refer to appearance... although many animals are smart and very intelligent, they wouldn't be considered "intelligent beings". something differs us from the animal kingdom. and that difference is partly because we are made in HIS likeness. remember GOD is beyond/before space/matter/energy. we are made out of matter/energy so "image" does not refer to "physical appearance" Kindly show me the verses in the Bible that support your hypothesis. Thank you. sure... john 4:24, luke 24:39, rom. 1:20, colossians 1:15, 1 tim. 1:17 all show that GOD is spirit, HE has no physical form. HE may take the form of man, to reveal HIMSELF to man. but as one who is before space/matter/energy, HE has no physical form. GOD is the cause of all finite things. HE is infinite so to say HE has the shape and image of a man (finite being) would be flawed. but really, u didn't need biblical text for that... Since you have brought the discussion in the realm of the spirit, let me show you some spirit pictures that reflect human images and spirit orbs. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() The spirits in the pictures have several forms. Those in human images are as follows: a) Hazy facial imprints; and b) Full blackened faces. As you can see, human images are not orbs. So, are you saying that Genesis 1:26-27 is wrong and you are right? |
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posted: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: How can i read the BiblePusangGala wrote: 2. Several verses whether literal or figurative disprove a 'vegetarian' God that Jan Rey is promoting. i think God promotes meat eating because he favored Abel's offering over Cain's.. LOL |
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posted: God has a right to change his mind.pusanggala: Maybe because they're trying to prove that the Bible is consistent when it is not?
janrey: well then your view of GOD is not biblical. as i said, u can refuse to believe the interpretation i hold, but u cannot deny science! and leisley being supposedly a supporter for science should not ignore the fact that the original diet is shown to be superior. and that adventists live in average longer than the population. and that was reported in the national geographic This is a false analogy fallacy. Here are some of the reasons why: http://health.howstuffworks.com/life-expectancy.htm 1. Life expectancies today are longer compared to previous periods. 2. Shintoist Okinawa, Japan have high rates of long life expectancies. 3. Andorra, the country with the longest life expectancy "...don't have to worry as much about being killed in an act of god..." pusanggala: Isn't it difficult to accept that God could change HIS mind? God gets angry too. God cares and sometimes He's fed up. God is more or less human and God is corporate. God is love as much as God is also hatred. janrey: when it comes to conditional punishment HE can change HIS mind if the people repent. but diet is not conditional. nowhere does it say that "if you are good, u can eat whatever you want!" as for GOD being angry, u cannot compare it to human wrath or anger since humans are sinful and GOD is not. as for GOD being "hateful" u have to read and understand the original language. when it comes to hating someone, it refers to being "loved less." and how do i know this? because according to john 3:16 which i think u all know, "GOD so LOVED the world...that whosoever believeth in HIM shall not peris, but have everlasting life." There is really no point of contention in here. pusanggala: The Bible simply reflects that corporate succession of humans as it builds up its knowledge base, cultural changes, and views on morality. janrey: well then that would make the bible just another human creation. but according to scriptures, the prophets spoke under inspiration. and that the WORD of GOD is inspired. of course this would be another intensive study on inspiration. although inspired, the writers themselves were to express and write down the ideas that GOD gave them in their own words, using own analogies, as well as doing research. they did not just sit around waiting to by hypnotized by the Spirit. that's not how inspiration works. anyways, the dietary guidelines apply to all human beings since we are all made up of the same things and have the same biological/physiologicall systems! I think you are jumping into conclusions. God has a right to change his mind. pusanggala: What's important is that humans should stop from killing each other for some trivial reason like one group eats a certain kind of food while the other doesn't as in the case of the Sepoy Rebellion. janrey: that argument is irrelevant! The statement is important. People kill each other nowadays for very trivial reasons. janrey: im going to add one more thing. christianity was not supposed to be a whole new religion. it was supposed to be a continuation of a religion dating back from adam and eve. christianity became so different from judaism due to false doctrines creeping into the church and the desire to distance themselves from judaism because of anti-semitism. So, who determines what is false and what is true? |
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posted: Cain's Plant Offering versus Abel's Meat OfferingULA wrote: PusangGala wrote: 2. Several verses whether literal or figurative disprove a 'vegetarian' God that Jan Rey is promoting. i think God promotes meat eating because he favored Abel's offering over Cain's.. LOL KJV GENESIS 4:1-12 1: And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. 2: And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 3: And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. 4: And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5: But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. 6: And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? 7: If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. 8: And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. 9: And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper? 10: And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. 11: And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand; 12: When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. |
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posted: RE: How can i read the Biblepusanggala: Second, I would like to point out also that Jan Rey is fond of non sequitur fallacies like his statement above to quote:[B]ut still, vegetarian lifestyle [is] still the best lifestyle! GOD had it right... [G]et over it. janrey: fallacy schmallacy, just pointing out facts! that's why i put that at the end. pusanggala: 1. No verse whatsoever in the Bible says that: "Thou shall not eat meat" or "Thou shall eat only vegetables." janrey: actually there is a command in the bible. before sin, GOD commanded man to eat fruits, nuts, and grains. while all the animals including the carnivores of today were to eat grass and vegetables. that was the original diet and therefore proven to be superior than any other diet. of course sin entered the world, now look at the flood story. why were there 7 clean and only 2 unclean? think about it... after the flood, vegetation would be hard to find. and here GOD allows man, not commands, but allows man to eat meat. and there's a reason why there were more clean animals brought in and that reason was for food. leviticus 11 gives in details what is considered clean and unclean. and there was never a command to eat "unclean meat" nor was it permissible. in any case the distinction between clean and unclean animals occurs the same time when flesh foods are introduced into the diet of man. coincidence? i don't think so. pusanggala: Please note also that there were grain offerings, meat offerings, and drink offerings yet there were no specific 'vegetable offerings' in Leviticus 23:9-20. janrey; please also note that these were part of the sacrificial system. depending on the purpose of the sacrifice, sometimes only the priests were to partake of the meat. sometimes both the priests and the person offering the sacrifice ate the meat. however, the issue is between clean and unclean meat. and the only type of animal used for sacrifices are the clean animals. i only pointed out the vegetarian lifestyle because it was the original diet prior to sin and also the superior diet as science is finding out. but many SDAs still consume meat, but they only eat clean meat. clean vs unclean is the main issue. |
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posted: RE: If humans were not created in the image of God, then is the Bible wrong and Jan Rey right?PusangGala wrote: jan rey wrote: PusangGala wrote: jan rey wrote: PusangGala wrote: jan rey wrote: well u have to be careful about using "finite/human" analogies in trying to comprehend an "infinite" concept. the plurality of GOD is one of GOD's mysteries that is beyond human comprehension, at least in this lifetime! I thought humans were made in the image of God. I could have made a wrong interpretation somewhere. KJV GENESIS 1: 26-27 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. image doesn't necessarily refer to appearance... although many animals are smart and very intelligent, they wouldn't be considered "intelligent beings". something differs us from the animal kingdom. and that difference is partly because we are made in HIS likeness. remember GOD is beyond/before space/matter/energy. we are made out of matter/energy so "image" does not refer to "physical appearance" Kindly show me the verses in the Bible that support your hypothesis. Thank you. sure... john 4:24, luke 24:39, rom. 1:20, colossians 1:15, 1 tim. 1:17 all show that GOD is spirit, HE has no physical form. HE may take the form of man, to reveal HIMSELF to man. but as one who is before space/matter/energy, HE has no physical form. GOD is the cause of all finite things. HE is infinite so to say HE has the shape and image of a man (finite being) would be flawed. but really, u didn't need biblical text for that... Since you have brought the discussion in the realm of the spirit, let me show you some spirit pictures that reflect human images and spirit orbs. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() The spirits in the pictures have several forms. Those in human images are as follows: a) Hazy facial imprints; and b) Full blackened faces. As you can see, human images are not orbs. So, are you saying that Genesis 1:26-27 is wrong and you are right? first of all, the fallen angels can take forms of the dead as in the case of saul and the witch of endor. the bible clearly denounces spiritism. the pictures are not basis for doctrine. your teachings of "spirit orbs" are not biblical. of course this is another topic: state of the dead that we'd have to address. and the only reason you think there's a contradiction between my interpretation and the bible is because u still think "image" refers to physical appearance. |
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posted: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: How can i read the BibleULA wrote: PusangGala wrote: 2. Several verses whether literal or figurative disprove a 'vegetarian' God that Jan Rey is promoting. i think God promotes meat eating because he favored Abel's offering over Cain's.. LOL lack of understanding about the significance in the sacrifical system. it was teaching tool pointing to the cross. it taught that only the shedding of the blood can cover our sins. the death of an innocent, unblemished animal, represented the death of the innocent, pure, JESUS (GOD) in place of man. u guys really need to stop reading the bible superficially! |
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posted: RE: How can i read the Biblepusanggala: Life expectancies today are longer compared to previous periodsjanrey: partly because of medical breakthrough. but what's the purpose of medicine? treatment. but what is the focus of diet and exercise? prevention. healthy lifestyle is not just about what to eat. it involves how much and what u do with the rest of your time. pusanggala: Shintoist Okinawa, Japan have high rates of long life expectancies. janrey: yeah and? im assuming that info comes from the same study printed in the national geographic magazine which also included SDAs in the US. google it or for an abstract go to: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0511/feature1/ pusanggala: Andorra, the country with the longest life expectancy "...don't have to worry as much about being killed in an act of god..." janrey: irrelevant to the topic but ok. pusanggala: I think you are jumping into conclusions. God has a right to change his mind. janrey: HE could, but HE doesn't. since HE is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. HE also has principles that HE sets up and adheres to by choice to set as an example, to be consistent, to be reliable, etc... for example, GOD could have changed the way salvation worked. JESUS wasn't too fond about dying. but "the wages of sin is death" and GOD did not want to break HIS own principles. what kind of a GOD would HE be if HE broke and bend HIS own laws? certainly not a righteous, holy, perfect GOD. pusanggala: The statement is important. People kill each other nowadays for very trivial reasons. janrey: im not talking about killing someone over it. when it comes to bible doctrines, each one of them is important. why bother putting them in scriptures if they weren't? why would paul say be careful of false doctrines creeping into the churches? you seem to imply that we don't need the bible. that we only on our feelings about certain subjects, that there are no absolute truths! i think there is an absolute truth, and that GOD is absolute, and that HE is consistent and noncontradictory. pusanggala: So, who determines what is false and what is true? janrey: the bible read in context! |
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posted: RE: How can i read the Biblejanrey: partly because of medical breakthrough. but what's the purpose of medicine? treatment. but what is the focus of diet and exercise? prevention. healthy lifestyle is not just about what to eat. it involves how much and what u do with the rest of your time.I disagree that medicine's only purpose is treatment. Modern man already has preventive medicine. Even pregnant mothers undergo regular check-ups and nutritional regimens to minimize certain pregnancy risks and birth defects. Moreover, many exercises today are unhealthy and are done in the name of vanity. Steroid shots, hormonal stimulation formulas and other mass building nutritional regimens could be unhealthy. janrey: yeah and? im assuming that info comes from the same study printed in the national geographic magazine which also included SDAs in the US. google it or for an abstract go to: http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0511/feature1/ Many persons in Okinawa, Japan have longer life spans than SDAs. That's the point. And majority of them practice Shintoism and/or ancestor worship. I don't believe in the Shintoist faith or its variants, and I don't believe God favors these people because they are Shintoist or because they worship their ancestors. janrey: irrelevant to the topic but ok. That's one of the reasons I used to disprove your implied claim that God favors the Seventh Day Adventists through longer life expectancies. janrey: HE could, but HE doesn't. since HE is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. HE also has principles that HE sets up and adheres to by choice to set as an example, to be consistent, to be reliable, etc... for example, GOD could have changed the way salvation worked. JESUS wasn't too fond about dying. but "the wages of sin is death" and GOD did not want to break HIS own principles. what kind of a GOD would HE be if HE broke and bend HIS own laws? certainly not a righteous, holy, perfect GOD. Many verses in the Bible illustrate that God changed His mind-- most often, after certain persons changed their ways. What's wrong with that? God did not bend anything. He just changed His mind. Is that so hard to accept for you? janrey: im not talking about killing someone over it. when it comes to bible doctrines, each one of them is important. why bother putting them in scriptures if they weren't? why would paul say be careful of false doctrines creeping into the churches? you seem to imply that we don't need the bible. that we only on our feelings about certain subjects, that there are no absolute truths! i think there is an absolute truth, and that GOD is absolute, and that HE is consistent and noncontradictory. You're jumping into conclusions again Jan Rey. I always keep a Bible close to me whether in paper form or electronic form. In fact, I read my Bible almost every week if not every day. janrey: the bible read in context! Of course, I do. I am not the one here who insists that God is vegetarian or that God doesn't have a right to change His mind because certain believers say God cannot change His mind. |
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posted: RE: RE: If humans were not created in the image of God, then is the Bible wrong and Jan Rey right?jan rey wrote: first of all, the fallen angels can take forms of the dead as in the case of saul and the witch of endor. the bible clearly denounces spiritism. the pictures are not basis for doctrine. your teachings of "spirit orbs" are not biblical. of course this is another topic: state of the dead that we'd have to address. and the only reason you think there's a contradiction between my interpretation and the bible is because u still think "image" refers to physical appearance. I am not teaching anything about spirit orbs Jan Rey. I just showed proof that most spirit forms captured on camera manifest in human forms or images. Since you implied that the Biblical verse pertaining to humans being made in God's image is incorrect, then I was probing if your concept of God's spirit is near the form of orbs as captured on camera. Yeah, you're right. These orbs have no biblical reference. They're just photographic and video phenomena just like the earth being oblate spheroid rather than flat or dinosaur bones being found in sediments. |
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posted: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: How can i read the Biblejan rey wrote: lack of understanding about the significance in the sacrifical system. it was teaching tool pointing to the cross. it taught that only the shedding of the blood can cover our sins. the death of an innocent, unblemished animal, represented the death of the innocent, pure, JESUS (GOD) in place of man. u guys really need to stop reading the bible superficially! Why deny other people the right to read the Bible Jan Rey? Just because our understanding does not fit Seventh Day Adventists' teachings means we have read our Bibles superficially. I think you are reading so many things into the Bible that you're making it complicated than it is just to fit SDA beliefs. |
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posted: RE: How can i read the Biblelecherous: I disagree that medicine's only purpose is treatment. Modern man already has preventive medicine. Even pregnant mothers undergo regular check-ups and nutritional regimens to minimize certain pregnancy risks and birth defects. Moreover, many exercises today are unhealthy and are done in the name of vanity. Steroid shots, hormonal stimulation formulas and other mass building nutritional regimens could be unhealthy. janrey: by medicine im referring to actual medication and not the medical field. regular check ups does not negate the benefits of a natural healthy diet/lifestyle which covers "nutritional regimens." really it all comes down to natural vs synthetic! infact many of the diseases including diabetes II and even I is reversible. and our body at its optimum can combat many illnesses like the swine flu, cancer, etc... and optimum health is gained through eating more vegetables and less meat (that's proven scientific fact). also as for steroids, hormonal stimulation, etc... isn't considered "exercise." again it's about goin all natural! GOD knew what HE was saying/doing when HE gave HIS people the dietary guidelines. lecherous: Many persons in Okinawa, Japan have longer life spans than SDAs. That's the point. And majority of them practice Shintoism and/or ancestor worship. I don't believe in the Shintoist faith or its variants, and I don't believe God favors these people because they are Shintoist or because they worship their ancestors. janrey: well i don't think the practice of shintoism or ancestor worship can be objectively studied. japanese had healthy foods prior to westernization(ie. mcdonalds). obesity is rising in japanese since the introduction of such restaurant chains. anyways, it was their diet and their healthy lifestyle not ancestor worship. lecherous: That's one of the reasons I used to disprove your implied claim that God favors the Seventh Day Adventists through longer life expectancies. janrey: LOL it's not about GOD favoring SDAs. it's about SDAs following GOD's guidelines. which is why japanese had long lifespans as well. their diet and lifestyle mirrored that given in scriptures. i never said GOD favored SDAs. i prove the bible's validity by showing that by following it's guidelines about healthy living it is proven to be scientifically beneficial. lecherous: Many verses in the Bible illustrate that God changed His mind-- most often, after certain persons changed their ways. What's wrong with that? God did not bend anything. He just changed His mind. Is that so hard to accept for you? janrey: i already addressed that issue. that's called conditional promises/punishments. GOD gave them a time frame to change their ways. GOD usually says something like "IF they do this or do that." therefore by giving them an opportunity to repent HE does not bend any of HIS principles since HE is merciful. tell me what's conditional about healthy diet? nowhere does the bible imply that if we are righteous, somehow GOD changes our biological system so we can benefit from unhealthy foods and lifestyle. really it all comes down to healthy living. lecherous: You're jumping into conclusions again Jan Rey. I always keep a Bible close to me whether in paper form or electronic form. In fact, I read my Bible almost every week if not every day. janrey: then why call doctrines "trivial"? besides, if u were hearing this from a professional health expert would u put up such a fight? i doubt it... lecherous: Of course, I do. I am not the one here who insists that God is vegetarian or that God doesn't have a right to change His mind because certain believers say God cannot change His mind. janrey: well i don't think GOD even eats, but that's irrelevant. the fact is GOD gave us dietary guidelines to follow and is proven scientifically as more beneficial than any other diet. also GOD changing HIS mind is too broad. as i said, concerning conditional promises/punishments HE gives them ample time to change and repent or prove themselves worthy of HIS promises. as for principles HE does not change. HE does not change how salvation works (everyone from adam and eve to the last person in the world are saved by grace alone). HE does not change HIS character. and HE certainly does not change our biological system so we can eat unhealthy without affecting us. GOD desires us to strive for the best whether physically, spiritually, or mentally! |
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posted: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: How can i read the BibleLecherousButete wrote: jan rey wrote: lack of understanding about the significance in the sacrifical system. it was teaching tool pointing to the cross. it taught that only the shedding of the blood can cover our sins. the death of an innocent, unblemished animal, represented the death of the innocent, pure, JESUS (GOD) in place of man. u guys really need to stop reading the bible superficially! Why deny other people the right to read the Bible Jan Rey? Just because our understanding does not fit Seventh Day Adventists' teachings means we have read our Bibles superficially. I think you are reading so many things into the Bible that you're making it complicated than it is just to fit SDA beliefs. did u read in context? the guy i was replying to was mocking scriptures. he said "i think God promotes meat eating because he favored Abel's offering over Cain's.. LOL" he twisted a text and took it out of context. u don't need to be an SDA to know that. i think most theologians and many denominations understood the difference between cain and abel's sacrifice and it was not about food! so the question is, are u siding with him just to oppose me? or u actually believe GOD chose abel's sacrifice because HE prefers people to eat meat? |








